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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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As most of you know, I've created the addon DiceKP as a method to distribute loot that combines elements of DKP with the rolling system we use now. You start out by rolling out of 200 and each time you win an item you roll out of 50 less each time. So after you win one item you roll out of 150, then out of 100 etc. The number 200 does not really have any special significance and I can always change that if that is what people want.
The more important thing is that I believe that I have all the bugs worked out but that's probably what Blizzard thought when they released this patch. That is why for Friday's raid (4/17) I would like to have EVERYONE in raid be using it to make any fine tuning. I don't care if we actually distribute loot with it but I still want to have people "practice rolling" with it just to make sure things are working as they should and that it is appropriately lowering or raising peoples rolls when it should. The current version I put up is 3.1 and you can see what version you have now by typing /dikp help or /dicekp help. If the help screen doesn't say a version number then it is definitely an older one that I made before it told you what version you had. If you still aren't sure if you need to download it, do it anyways just to be sure. You can find it in the files section of the site and you install it just like any other addon.
I'm very open to adding more features as long as I can be convinced that they serve a useful purpose. For example, if someone wants it to keep a record of specifically which items were won rather than just the number of items won I will look into that but something like "make the window smaller" or "make the buttons a different color" will not be done because you don't need to have the window up for anything and therefore changing how it looks is pointless.
I look forwards to seeing everyone in raid!
EDIT: I made a small change and uploaded it again. It didn't show that there were any downloads so it shouldn't affect anyone but if you downloaded it before 5:00 PM EST today (4/17) then you need to update again, sorry.
** Post edited by Esurion on 4/17/2009.
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 | brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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You don't need to keep track of items won, there's an addon called HeadCount that keeps track of raid loot.
I maintain that the roll penalty per item won needs to be more like 50 in order to have an actual impact. Only lowering it by 10 still leaves the very real possibility of someone winning 5-6 things in a run, which is exactly what this is supposed to prevent.
Add two points per boss and five each for showing up on time and staying the whole time. Maybe two to people who were available on time but had to be put on standby.
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Member of
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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Yeah I agree that lowering it by only 10 does seem too small but before I change little details like that I'd like to make sure there are no bugs or errors first. Something I'd like to do is make it so the amount that is lowered is a variable so it can be changed by an officer without having to make everyone download it again. Remember however that the rolls stay with you as long as we don't reset so if you win 5-6 things in one run you will win less in the next run so overall it will balance out. 50 I think might be too much because half the guild would be rolling out of 10 after just a few runs.
As for adding points for killing a boss I still haven't found a way to do it automatically but I am working on it. For now officers can issue a command that will add to everyone's roll whenever a boss is killed.
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Arisamer
Level 85 Priest, Discipline.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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The more I read about our rolling system you're trying to implement the more and more it sounds like a EP/GP type system. http://wow.curse.com/... I think we should consider this add-on. It's already fully developed and is a very similar concept.
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| brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Here's a link to all the details about that addon. It looks really good.
EPGP
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Member of
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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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I will admit, the EPGP addon is far superior to mine in terms of development. The only reason that I even made my own is because it is almost like a hybrid of the free roll system and the DKP system of EPGP. The idea was that in free rolls, there is never any reason not to roll on something that is any sort of upgrade for you but it can result in one person getting tons of loot and others getting nothing just due to simple chance. With DKP (EPGP is DKP) it rewards players who have raided the most and received the least amount of loot by comparison. The down side is that some people will horde DKP by declining loot that would be an upgrade for them so they can get their best in slot later. For example, in my friend's guild that uses this same addon, some people didn't pick up anything in naxx just so they would have the most DKP to win turning tide. This results in a lack of raid progression if people don't pick up the loot that they really need. The idea with DiceKP is that if you roll on loot, you get a lower chance of winning something else but it it is still very possible to win again. That way you can still pick up gear along the way and still have a shot at your best in slot (I know you've all seen people rolling a 2 out of 200 so you can still beat them rolling out of 50). The downside with mine is that it is much less polished than "real" addons and it does still have the problem of people not rolling to keep their roll higher, it's just diminished a little. Really what matters is what the officers want to do.
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| brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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There's always forced looting!
And this:
In order to award recent effort more than past effort, which in effect avoids PR hoarding for veterans and enables new coming and dedicated members of a guild to be awarded properly, EPGP supports a decay mechanism. Decay simply removes a chunk of EP and GP from the totals, effectively leaving PR unchanged. For example with a decay of 10% applied each week, for each 7 days that pass your effort's rewards get diminished by 10%. The effort you put 10 weeks ago will only be worth 34.8% of what it did when you received it ( (1-0.1) 10 ).
In other words, if you don't spend your points early and often, they will be worth considerably less as time goes on.
** Post edited by Arnasian on 4/18/2009.
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Member of
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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Good enough for me, I'm still more than willing to continue work on DiceKP if officers like that better but I really like the way EPGP sounds too.
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| brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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My feeling is that in order to get the ball rolling on Ulduar progression, all the fringe details need to be in order first. Figuring out the core raiders, filling any holes there may be, getting everyone's current gear enchanted, having a finalized method of distributing loot... There only needs to be one thing that everyone is worrying about in any given raid, and that is "how does this fight go." We can't have people worrying about loot distribution, replacing people who have left/can't cut it, or anything else.
I know many people appreciate the work that Esurion is doing, myself included, but we hvae to weigh all the factors. We really need to get some officers' opinions here, too.
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Member of
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Enee
Level 85 Paladin, Protection.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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It does look interesting indeed. I'll discuss it with the others asap. As for the details Arnasian mentionned, 3.1 caught us unawares, with our pants down as it were. SO we do have a few details to work out before we can get really going, first among these is figuring who is in or out. I suspect with their taste of raiding last night, some might review their interest. This will just make things easier.
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| brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Quote:
It does look interesting indeed. I'll discuss it with the others asap. As for the details Arnasian mentionned, 3.1 caught us unawares, with our pants down as it were. SO we do have a few details to work out before we can get really going, first among these is figuring who is in or out. I suspect with their taste of REAL raiding last night, some might review their interest. This will just make things easier.
Fixed!
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Member of
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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Well I'm glad people do appreciate the work I've been doing with the addon and I promise I won't feel bad or anything if we don't end up using it. I wrote it to help the guild but if the guild doesn't need it then obviously it isn't helping. Now that I've gotten a bit of a handle on how addons are made if there is any other ideas people would like to see made I'd love to give it a shot. As for raiding selection I think it should be made clear that Ulduar WILL involve a lot of wiping. If you don't like spending a night downing a boss then if last night was any indicator then it sounds like you won't like Ulduar very much. That being said I'd like to see some sort of way to encourage people to get ready for another pull so we can get in as many as possible.
For example, if we keep a running timer that tracks the total time spent in between fights we can say something along the lines of for every minute spent wasting time not fighting the boss, everyone donates 10g to the guild bank. If people don't want to go broke they'll hurry up. Another idea is that with EPGP you can give a bonus for things like showing up on time, clearing a boss, etc. So the people who show up ready to go get a bonus and therefore more loot but the ones who don't don't get the bonus and will miss out on loot. What do you guys think?
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Member of
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Dandaline
Level 85 Druid, Feral Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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The idea of punishing everyone if it is gold or some thing else when it could be one or five people not ready or late for a raid doesnt sound good at all. Why punish the ones that were prepared and ready?
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Member of
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Esurion
Level 80 Mage, Frost.
Human. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Whoops! Sorry, I meant to type everyone who was late, not everyone in the raid.
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| brahmabull754
Arnasian
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< CoL >
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Member of
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Arnasian
Level 80 Rogue, Combat.
Night Elf. Alliance.
Shadowmoon (PvP) - NorthAmerica
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Maybe just having people on standby and replacing people who are afk more than 5 minutes would be enough.
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